81 Comments
User's avatar
Kate's avatar

As a mum of both girl and boys I have to play it differently with each, which also leads to a whole bunch of trouble when they want the same! The boys is usually physical risk to avert - had a multi-agency cliff rescue just this weekend - but for the girls it’s more mood management / support after hideously late nights. She’s only 11 so I’m glad I read your piece as I also want to be always available - the house they want to be in.

Expand full comment
Harriet Mason's avatar

Oof, I'm in the thick of parenting a sassy ('Well you did call me Saskia, mum, what did you expect') 15 year old and it's challenging me in so many ways, even though she's the youngest of three. We've had vaping issues, alcohol being smuggled in for a sleepover (I called the parents and sent all them all home), not to mention increasing levels of independence. Even though we live in a very safe town and she has a good set of friends (plus you can't do anything in this community without someone seeing you & reporting back) I still worry when she's out. That said she's a strong character and has her head screwed on when it comes to the friendship dramas that come with the territory at this age. So much to say on this subject and a big thank you for opening it up.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

The vaping frightens me, and I actually saw one of her pals doing it today in the park, though she insists she's not tried it... I believe her not because she's determined not to do anything that will compromise her skin!! But still, they'll do stuff and we'll be there to pick them up and dust them down when shit hits the fan.. we've all been there x

Expand full comment
Kirsty Strang-Roy's avatar

This is such a powerful and insightful piece, pal. Our being-parented so affects our parenting. It's something that I've done a bit of a deep dive on this year. Not always comfortable! My kids are still very little (4;3) and I think what I'm wading through at the moment is the anxiety of what you so clearly articulate here. I'm anticipating the behaviours and the inevitable mistakes my own history will lead me to make. I can feel it! I'm also a trauma-experienced parent (sibling loss) and that adds a whole other layer to this. Going to think on this one and report back...

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

But what a gift that you have the ability, insight and self-knowledge to be prepared for the shitstorm, pal. That's huuuuuuge. I think I really wasn't prepared. Saw my parenting journey in isolation from my own experience of being parented for so long. Let's keep chatting on this...

Expand full comment
Ellen Chapman's avatar

Mother of two tween boys and I’m trying to come to terms with being one of the strict mums rather than one of the cool ones. It all comes down to screen time at the moment. Particularly for our nearly 12 year old, who’s told us that his friends’ parents let them play as much computer games and watch as much YouTube as they want, and we...don’t. We set limits because we can see how dysregulated he gets when he plays for hours on end. We check age ratings because he swears he’s ready for a 15 but then stays up half the night quietly freaking out about a scary film he watched at a sleepover. I think we’re making the right choices for him in the long term, but I hate knowing his friends are side eyeing him over how strict and square his parents are.

Expand full comment
Kate's avatar

Same! I am accused of being the worst parent because I don’t allow all-nighter gaming sessions which leave him depleted and unable to attend school. It’s hard when their friends have no boundaries. Strangely I don’t need screen boundaries for my daughter at all because she just uses it normally but my son has no concept and has, once, gone eight hours without a loo break. I just can’t allow him to do that to himself. At 13 I feel he’s still a child and needs a parent. I hate the cool-mum thing. I have to be a grown-up here because it’s unsafe not to so I’ll just have to accept the uncool mum badge from his friends and hope they have a nice time when they actually come over.

Expand full comment
Ellen Chapman's avatar

Yes, it’s no fun having to be the grown up but mine is definitely not able or old enough to set the boundary for himself. The ever evolving job of parenting!

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Completely agree with you, since I have a 12yo who is addicted to Roblox and simultaneous group calls! Like your son she could quite happily go hours without leaving her station and gets really grumpy when I try to cajole her away from it all. In saying that, she has come to the realisation herself that she needs to have a curfew and an early-ish bedtime midweek, but that only became possible when she decided for herself. Us telling her for months did nothing! Ahh, life 🤣

Expand full comment
Ellen Chapman's avatar

Oh god the group calls! My almost 12 year old has no concept of an indoor voice 😬 I think/hope we’re on the cusp of him making the decision for himself on early bedtimes in the week and screen time limits🤞

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

It's such a tricky balance isn't it, Ellen? I know the impact that screens, sugar and lack of sleep have on my own kids and try super hard to find a way to gently encourage healthy behaviours in a way that doesn't stigmatise others or lead to a bad atmosphere but it's so hard! Well done you for remaining principled and seeing the bigger picture for you and your boys. It's hard to stick the course.

Expand full comment
Layla O'Mara's avatar

Lots resonating from my teenage years and also so helpful to read as my own kids eek ever closer to teen-dom !

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Let's keep chatting, Layla! And yes, the comments on this one have been a WILD RIDE, haven't they? So much buried shame that we can't seem to quite unshackle ourselves from...

Expand full comment
Layla O'Mara's avatar

just spent some time reading through the comments here - it is amazing how much we have buried and carry in us, and that good writing can blow the dust off and remind us of... also so fascinating (and helpful!) to read of everyones approaches to parenting and sleepovers and all the rest - I certainly veer form trying not to interfere and let the kids have their own space and freedom (I really liked what Anna Wharton said here) and also not sending the kids home feral with exhaustion! A few pearls here I'm certainly going to steal for my parenting adventure! x

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

The comments on this piece have been so brilliant and helpful, Layla. Agreed. And I think in the post-Mumsnet era (thankfully for me, anyway – hated that vibe!) we are in need of a place to hear how others tackle the big and small stuff with their growing kids. Thanks for chipping back in here. I think this might rumble on...

Expand full comment
Layla O'Mara's avatar

Never managed to navigate those forums either (shivers). But for me, it’s in the how of the telling too - writing that is honest and true and raw but also spacious enough to allow others have their say too. Well done on fab piece x

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Yep, all they ever did was make me feel incredibly insecure! Thanks, Layla – I have picked up my copy of Motherlore for another wee dip and loved your piece so much. X

Expand full comment
Layla O'Mara's avatar

There’s so much great writing in it isn’t there? Thanks for reading- its a tweaked excerpt from a book I’ve written and which will hopefully have a home soooon 😬🤞🤞

Expand full comment
Kelly Hargie's avatar

Such an honest and interesting read, Lindsay. Mum of 3 teenage boys here and thankfully not too many sleepovers and they have only stopped over with friends whose parents we know fairly well so I guess the boundaries/ expectations are well understood so they can all have fun but still get some sleep/ not come home high on sugar and screen-time. I think my approach to mothering them in relation to them talking to and trusting me has always been 'you don't have to tell me everything, but you can tell me anything', that they know they can always come to me no matter what's going on with them. Sounds like you're doing a wonderful job with your girls and we are raising kids in really unprecedented times and figuring it all out as we go. Reading about your experiences really hit me deep, I definitely recall feeling like the one who was causing the bother. I was certainly a wild teenager, but that's all part of figuring our changing bodies/ world views out and I so agree with you that shaming for this is gross.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

I love that: 'You don't have to tell me everything but you can tell me anything.' Stealing that. And yes, that thing of being the wild teenager... I definitely had my moments but there was a clear line I never crossed. it was a self-imposed one, though, because I was never presented with boundaries or rules. Self-policing is definitely a trauma response!

Expand full comment
Lyndsay Kaldor's avatar

So good Lindsay, thank you for sharing your beautiful relationship with your girls and the new and tricky terrain you are discovering, navigating boundaries with a degree of freedom. I so hope mine will always be open to share with me and vice versa, like you and your girls. Also so interesting to hear your experiences with friends’ parents…it feels awful that they felt it was ok to comment on what they had no right to/you felt targeted. I am quite a way off this in my parenting journey as you know but can already feel the push pull of being told to go away/being wanted in almost the same breath! Right now, can’t even imagine the stuff of sleepovers, will wait til mine can actually sleep all night before I worry about that though! xx

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Definitely wait until you've had a good run of decent sleep before you start worrying about the sleepovers and the midnight taxi calls! I definitely remember looking towards parents of children who were older than mine and thinking, 'how do they do it?' but it turns out there's always someone just behind you thinking the same of how 'easy' you make it all look!

Expand full comment
Lyndsay Kaldor's avatar

Haha yes, I won’t worry about this yet…! Ah yes you’re so right, I remember going to a breastfeeding clinic when my son was about 8 months old after some major mastitis and seeing all the mums of newborns and realising ‘how far I’d come’ and how different everything was, even then xx

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Yes! And they would've been looking at you with your thriving baby and been all like, 'Wow, she's totally nailing this!'

Expand full comment
Michelle's avatar

Excellent and thought provoking writing as always pal, and you have creating such a supportive environment for the girls.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Thanks, pal. We are in a constant state of change as we try to catch up with them!

Expand full comment
Claire Venus ✨'s avatar

Lindsay, this was a brilliant read. God help me when Luna is a teen 😂 you’re a brilliant mum.

I can remember being 16 and my older boyfriend was at the doorstep “just leaving” for hours - my poor mum would come down stairs WILD with me and he’d disappear into the night! 😆

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Whoa! Those teen years were so intense!!! I can conjure them again now reading this, Claire. And yes, this is what lies ahead. My eldest wants the annex at the back of the house when she's 16 which has its own entrance... I know exactly why I'd have wanted that as well!

Expand full comment
Sarah Raad's avatar

I think we have to believe that we can parent and keep boundaries without shaming children, ours and other people’s. It’s helpful to start by being curious about their behaviour I think, and always choosing to admonish your child in private. I personally hate that ‘in this house we…’ chat as well that sometimes people say to the children of other people. It’s so patronising

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Oh god, I hear that so strongly Sarah. It's such a hard thing to hear because it's so triggering I think. And shows a lack of confidence in a parent rather than a show of strength.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

And also, that they are floundering a bit. Like a teacher who is struggling with classroom management and resorting to punitive measures

Expand full comment
Sarah Raad's avatar

yeah and just that unsaid thing of 'so our family values etc are better than yours'. As in much of life, asking a load of questions and listening to understand rather than win a point is the best way.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Absolutely. Questions better than commands and statements!

Expand full comment
Dr Lily Dunn's avatar

This ia a lovely vibrant piece of writing, Lindsay, and it took me back to when my kids were younger, and the drama of sleepovers. I do remember once when my daughter was about 9 she had four or five friends over and they did not sleep at all. Not one bit. I was shocked this had happened (I hadn't realised) and we had far less sleepovers after that. Or I would be quite strict with them and sit on the stairs and wait for them to go to sleep. I must have been the annoying mum, but I also felt a responsibility not to send my kids' friends home having not slept.

My poor son once spent the entire night crying at a sleepover because the other kids were so wild and kept throwing things at him each time he tried to nestle down in his sleeping bag, and I was annoyed with the parents for not protecting the kids more ... he was only about six or seven.

But then my kids went to a Waldorf Steiner school which veered between parents who had firm rules and other hippy types.

I didn't really experience any of the shame you recall from your own childhood I think because North London parenting in the late 80s was pretty free and open. But I do remember being fat shamed A LOT by an American neighbour we had. That stayed with me lots. Love this piece. Lots to think about.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

That's so interesting, Lily, to hear you didn't have the experience in your community in North London but that you were fat shamed by that American is the absolute worst. And that it was repeated?! AND I don't believe that you would have ever (not that anyone does, of course) been deserving of that person's hateful words.

What you say about our kids' experience of sleepovers and the responsibility or code that we hope other households might uphold is interesting. It's certainly unspoken in our circles but as Sarah Raad said in her comment, so important not to shame by asserting what 'this household's will or won't tolerate... There really is nothing worse than a child returning to you on a Sunday completely destroyed from the night before, though. Sugar, lack of sleep and screens: the worst trio!

Expand full comment
Katie's avatar

Mother of boys, but this still resonates so finely with me. What a beautiful articulation of growing up and trying to guide (or at least be present for) others in doing so. ❤️

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Thanks so much, Katie. I am really interested in how this lands with parents of boys and had a lovely chat with a pal IRL today who has three of her own and had read this post. I'd love to read more on mother's parenting boys, to be honest.

Expand full comment
Sarah Robertson's avatar

I honestly can’t think of a time when I felt shame around a friend or in their home. There was more chance of me feeling ashamed in my own four walls. This is why I’m (casually) determined to be the mother my daughter can talk to, confide in and hopefully have fun with. Can’t say I’m looking forward to navigating the teenage years given the nonsense I got up to! But I hope I can guide her through them as best I can 🥹💛

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Delighted that this wasn't your experience, Sarah! I had a chat with another friend today who said exactly this, in fact. That shame permeated every teen exchange with her father in particular. What a horrid situation. And I have no doubt you'll be absolutely brilliant with your wee girl... The time is fast approaching!

Expand full comment
Anna Wharton's avatar

I’m the mum who goes to bed waaaaaay before the kids, I just poke my head in, negotiate a lights out time and leave them to it. God help them if I wake up and it’s past out agreed time! I trust my kid and she trusts me. Of course she tries to push it (the bedtime negotiations go on a while and she does the whole ‘not fair’ thing, but … 😬🤷🏻‍♀️). I don’t think kids have enough alone time anymore, we were always out and about, making our own risk assessments and having a life away from our parents. Kids need to do that. They need to have their secrets, and at the same time, if you’re lucky, they’ll talk to you about anything. Above all, I parent (alone btw) by way knowing I’ll never get it right. Since my daughter was a baby I have asked myself two questions — Is she safe? Is she happy? If the answer to those two is yes, I don’t sweat the small stuff.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

I love that you have that degree of trust with your daughter, Anna, and that there is clearly then a respect for you on her part that she knows the consequences of a breach and wouldn't want to risk it! I completely agree with you that they should test our limits and that it's right they have privacy and secrets from the adults in their lives, too. I am so lucky that at the moment both my girls are happy to bring up stuff with me and let me know when they've heard enough...!

Expand full comment
Catriona Knapman's avatar

A very evocative piece Lindsay- i can picture those scenes with you and your friends. I think so many parents are so incredibly uncomfortable about their kids becoming adults that their reactions become shaming and stay marked in our brains. I def remember that from my own teenage years. I also hve some big memories from clothes shopping in Debenhams in Glasgow. My mum always vetoed my choices with disapproving looks. But when i was fifteen or sixteen i remember i got this awesome red mini skirt to wear to a school dance. Not quite sure how it got approved but I loved that skirt. I felt so grown up and so free.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Remembering those autonomous clothes choices is so powerful, Catriona. And we'd have been shopping in there possibly at the same time! It was so rare to be given the chance to pick something for yourself and have it approved, wasn't it? Thanks for your reflections, and I completely agree with you on how hard it can be as parents to move with our children towards a life stage we remember so vividly for its potency and extremes. To give them the space and respect to explore while maintaining an open dialogue on all the big stuff in a way that's non-judgemental. I fancy another trip down memory lane now for outfits loved and lost...

Expand full comment
Allison Deraney's avatar

This is such a beautiful piece. Captivated me the whole time.

My daughter is 10 so I am beginning that journey of witnessing her exploration into tweendom with all its challenges, beauty, questions and drama.

Thinking about all of this reminds me of something I once heard (can’t recall where) - “And so I pull back to keep them close”

I’m learning this is the tightrope we walk as parents.

Expand full comment
Lindsay Johnstone's avatar

Allison, thanks so much. It is absolutely a tightrope, and we really do have to let them learn by doing, don't we? I love that quote, too. So many mentions in the comments of the ropes and ties that bind us to our children, and the dance of tug and release we need to engage in. Wishing you and your wee one well on the next chapter and here for this chat as we continue to feel our way together.

Expand full comment